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Post by gwebster2 on Jun 17, 2015 22:44:05 GMT -4
I've seen god. Mostly during the events leading to my first arrest. He doesn't care about us. We've been cancelled halfway through. There's no more updates coming. The dev developed something more interesting.  |
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Post by hygenisthygenist on Jun 17, 2015 22:45:09 GMT -4
I've seen god. Mostly during the events leading to my first arrest. He doesn't care about us. We've been cancelled halfway through. There's no more updates coming. The dev developed something more interesting. Umm... You want to know why he allows us to suffer, free will. Free will, in the sense of "not everything is predetermined", is bunk. |
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sk8
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Post by sk8 on Jun 17, 2015 22:48:42 GMT -4
Umm... You want to know why he allows us to suffer, free will. Free will, in the sense of "not everything is predetermined", is bunk. Actually, nothing is predetermined, it's coincidence in my opinion. Believing in things being predetermined is belief in fate, which comes from Hinduism. |
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Post by The Villa Strangiato on Jun 17, 2015 22:49:32 GMT -4
I know, I'm not stating that scientists are deceiving the masses. I'm saying that from the perspective of someone who claims atheism without understand scientific principles and yet ardently believes them the scientists could potentially be deceiving the masses. just judging on the fact that atheists/agnostics tend to be very well educated (high amount of atheistic professors, scientists, etc), there has to be enough people in general that can say "this is complete bullshit"(in reference to some article) without being corrupt or whatever since atheist research papers are pretty factual based and straight out there for anyone to read. and saying atheism is a religion/faith based is kind of silly. religion and faith based rely on blind faith, atheism/agnosticism can draw conclusions and say 'this, i personally think, is fairly likely'. just wanted to make that point also, something i finally want to point out, is that atheism and agnosticism isn't exactly that cut and dry. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability/bails There are also a high amount of scientists/theorists that are theist and I was just comparing theism in atheism in terms of structure, nothing more |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 22:51:42 GMT -4
flamewar commencing ...
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Post by hygenisthygenist on Jun 17, 2015 22:52:24 GMT -4
Free will, in the sense of "not everything is predetermined", is bunk. Actually, nothing is predetermined, it's coincidence in my opinion. Believing in things being predetermined is belief in fate, which comes from Hinduism. Actually, deterministic ideas have independently surfaced in many cultures. But they were really hammered out during The Enlightenment (in Europe at least). Things MUST be predetermined, and I'm an Agnostic. If I can believe that I'm seeing the real world, and it follows the laws that I see (namely cause and effect) then Free Will (unless you define free will as simply as "the ability to make choices") can't exist. |
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Post by The Villa Strangiato on Jun 17, 2015 22:53:25 GMT -4
flamewar commencing ... Yup also has it bothered anyone that tim spelled atheist wrong in the poll |
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Post by gwebster2 on Jun 17, 2015 22:56:11 GMT -4
flamewar commencing ...  |
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sk8
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Post by sk8 on Jun 17, 2015 22:58:55 GMT -4
What I'm getting at is free will is the ability to make choices and have your own future, not being fate the your future will suck or something. Like say, your job when you grow up. It hasn't already been decided that I'm going to develop games(just an example), because I could decide to take a different career path and that's my free will.
By nothing is predetermined, I'm talking about the concept of fate in people's lives. Nothing is already decided by the universe of what your future will be, you make your future.
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Post by gwebster2 on Jun 17, 2015 22:58:55 GMT -4
Actually, nothing is predetermined, it's coincidence in my opinion. Believing in things being predetermined is belief in fate, which comes from Hinduism. Actually, deterministic ideas have independently surfaced in many cultures. But they were really hammered out during The Enlightenment (in Europe at least). Things MUST be predetermined, and I'm an Agnostic. If I can believe that I'm seeing the real world, and it follows the laws that I see (namely cause and effect) then Free Will (unless you define free will as simply as "the ability to make choices") can't exist. well you do make choices so that's free will but your choices cause things so that's predetermined but the thing that made you make that choice in the first place is predetermined or someone else made a choice and then that was made you make YOUR choice im confused |
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Post by The Villa Strangiato on Jun 17, 2015 23:01:23 GMT -4
Actually, deterministic ideas have independently surfaced in many cultures. But they were really hammered out during The Enlightenment (in Europe at least). Things MUST be predetermined, and I'm an Agnostic. If I can believe that I'm seeing the real world, and it follows the laws that I see (namely cause and effect) then Free Will (unless you define free will as simply as "the ability to make choices") can't exist. well you do make choices so that's free will but your choices cause things so that's predetermined but the thing that made you make that choice in the first place is predetermined or someone else made a choice and then that was made you make YOUR choice im confused |
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Post by hygenisthygenist on Jun 17, 2015 23:02:26 GMT -4
What I'm getting at is free will is the ability to make choices and have your own future, not being fate the your future will suck or something. Like say, your job when you grow up. It hasn't already been decided that I'm going to develop games(just an example), because I could decide to take a different career path and that's my free will. By nothing is predetermined, I'm talking about the concept of fate in people's lives. Nothing is already decided by the universe of what your future will be, you make your future. Everything happens because of something else. That's what I'm getting at. You can't escape that. Just because you can't know your future, doesn't mean that it wasn't predetermined. You could change your mind, but whether or not you change your mind isn't really up to you. You don't get to choose what shapes your decisions, you don't get to choose past experience, genetic predispositions, etc. |
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sk8
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Post by sk8 on Jun 17, 2015 23:07:49 GMT -4
What I'm getting at is free will is the ability to make choices and have your own future, not being fate the your future will suck or something. Like say, your job when you grow up. It hasn't already been decided that I'm going to develop games(just an example), because I could decide to take a different career path and that's my free will. By nothing is predetermined, I'm talking about the concept of fate in people's lives. Nothing is already decided by the universe of what your future will be, you make your future. Everything happens because of something else. That's what I'm getting at. You can't escape that. Just because you can't know your future, doesn't mean that it wasn't predetermined. You could change your mind, but whether or not you change your mind isn't really up to you. You don't get to choose what shapes your decisions, you don't get to choose past experience, genetic predispositions, etc. So, what you're saying is that I could make a decision right now, but my choice wasn't up to me? Basically, you're saying that we are puppets? Therefore, you are saying there is in fact a god based upon that, if otherwise we would be the people who decide for our self. That leads to the question, which one? If it's the Christian God, then your case is wrong, because he gave us free will. |
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Post by The Villa Strangiato on Jun 17, 2015 23:09:01 GMT -4
everyone
listen to my song
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Post by Τι κοιτάς ρε on Jun 17, 2015 23:09:22 GMT -4
I don't even know what to vote, I seriously have no fucking idea in which end of the spectrum I am.
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Post by hygenisthygenist on Jun 17, 2015 23:11:07 GMT -4
Everything happens because of something else. That's what I'm getting at. You can't escape that. Just because you can't know your future, doesn't mean that it wasn't predetermined. You could change your mind, but whether or not you change your mind isn't really up to you. You don't get to choose what shapes your decisions, you don't get to choose past experience, genetic predispositions, etc. So, what you're saying is that I could make a decision right now, but my choice wasn't up to me? Basically, you're saying that we are puppets? Therefore, you are saying there is in fact a god based upon that, if otherwise we would be the people who decide for our self. That leads to the question, which one? If it's the Christian God, then your case is wrong, because he gave us free will. I didn't say anything about puppets. Think more like clockwork toys. The universe was set in motion by an event or being, and everything else is a natural consequence of that. Even God can't make a creature with free will in the sense that you're talking about. |
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Danonymous
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System.out.println("Hello Bannanachair!");
Posts: 2,086
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Post by Danonymous on Jun 18, 2015 9:05:40 GMT -4
Atheist here, I joke about being a Satanistic Islamic.
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Silverhawk352
2K Club
Oh, look at that, forgot my damn Username again..
Posts: 2,239
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Religion
Jun 18, 2015 14:19:34 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by Silverhawk352 on Jun 18, 2015 14:19:34 GMT -4
I am like Darwin when it comes to Religion, I belive in God/evolution..
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Post by General Piment on Jun 18, 2015 14:50:59 GMT -4
You forgot to add Origin
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vammy
10K Club
Joined this out of extreme boredom
Posts: 17,978
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Post by vammy on Jul 29, 2015 6:21:57 GMT -4
Agonistic
Yes Vammy has opinions beyond insulting people and sex
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Post by gwebster2 on Jul 29, 2015 11:48:22 GMT -4
i dont believe you, vammy
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Post by gwebster2 on Jul 29, 2015 11:51:00 GMT -4
"wel, i dun bleave inna jesus and fuk anyone who believz in god" -Actually every atheist ever wel i dun bleave inna jesus and fuk anyone who believz in god |
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Ivy
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I guess we're migrating back to this shithole.
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Post by Ivy on Jul 29, 2015 11:57:08 GMT -4
So, what you're saying is that I could make a decision right now, but my choice wasn't up to me? Basically, you're saying that we are puppets? Therefore, you are saying there is in fact a god based upon that, if otherwise we would be the people who decide for our self. That leads to the question, which one? If it's the Christian God, then your case is wrong, because he gave us free will. I didn't say anything about puppets. Think more like clockwork toys. The universe was set in motion by an event or being, and everything else is a natural consequence of that. Even God can't make a creature with free will in the sense that you're talking about. Why can't free will AND predetermination exist? Free will helps you to make choices and predetermination decides the choice that you will most likely take, as well as deciding the outcome, and then it again is up to you to decide where you will go and what you will do. |
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Sean Max
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No hablo español; inglés por favor.
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Post by Sean Max on Jul 29, 2015 13:53:54 GMT -4
someone who cannot prove nor disprove the existence of a god a fence-sitter between theism and atheism Someone who believes in a God, however said "God" doesn't pertain to a certain religion. God is only used in agnosticism as a "higher power". |
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Post by gwebster2 on Jul 29, 2015 13:55:54 GMT -4
i believe that if there was a god, it would surely be something beyond humand comprehension. not just "it was there forever" but something that can literally not be put into human thought.
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