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Post by Bannanachair on Aug 1, 2017 9:41:55 GMT -4
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Post by hygenisthygenist on Aug 1, 2017 14:07:28 GMT -4
Yeah, HP Lovecraft was hella racist. Most of his poems were shit too. Still, you can't deny that he invented cosmic horror of that sort, and how it still holds quite a bit of influence on horror today.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 16:39:19 GMT -4
What a work of art
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tarandus
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This fragment is my legacy to you
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Post by tarandus on Aug 1, 2017 18:15:58 GMT -4
I like it!
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Post by Bannanachair on Aug 1, 2017 19:34:47 GMT -4
Yeah, HP Lovecraft was hella racist. Most of his poems were shit too. Still, you can't deny that he invented cosmic horror of that sort, and how it still holds quite a bit of influence on horror today. He also literally wrote that black people were created by the gods to bridge the gap between man and beast. People give Rudyard Kipling shit for White Man's Burden which (to me) reads in a really sarcastic way but with Lovecraft it's just Cthulhu this and Cthulhu that. |
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Post by Death on Aug 2, 2017 5:55:06 GMT -4
Yeah, HP Lovecraft was hella racist. Most of his poems were shit too. Still, you can't deny that he invented cosmic horror of that sort, and how it still holds quite a bit of influence on horror today. He also literally wrote that black people were created by the gods to bridge the gap between man and beast. People give Rudyard Kipling shit for White Man's Burden which (to me) reads in a really sarcastic way but with Lovecraft it's just Cthulhu this and Cthulhu that. Product of the time. He's a racist, and honestly he was kind of an asshole as a person, but he influenced horror heavily, to the point where there are people who do his own mythos better than he does. |
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Post by Bannanachair on Aug 2, 2017 6:30:30 GMT -4
He also literally wrote that black people were created by the gods to bridge the gap between man and beast. People give Rudyard Kipling shit for White Man's Burden which (to me) reads in a really sarcastic way but with Lovecraft it's just Cthulhu this and Cthulhu that. Product of the time. He's a racist, and honestly he was kind of an asshole as a person, but he influenced horror heavily, to the point where there are people who do his own mythos better than he does. For a quick comparison, that poem was written in the same year that Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote A Princess of Mars which, though slightly racist, is both significantly more mild and honestly doesn't even seem to be attempting to say that there's anything bad about being of a different race, just that there are more differences than appearance alone. Lovecraft wrote a poem about how the gods created something between man and beast called a "nigger" while Burroughs was writing a book about how all the various races of Barsoom (Mars) came to live in harmony under the benevolent rule of John Carter, Tars Tarkas, et al. |
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Post by Bannanachair on Aug 2, 2017 6:37:43 GMT -4
Product of the time. He's a racist, and honestly he was kind of an asshole as a person, but he influenced horror heavily, to the point where there are people who do his own mythos better than he does. For a quick comparison, that poem was written in the same year that Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote A Princess of Mars which, though slightly racist, is both significantly more mild and honestly doesn't even seem to be attempting to say that there's anything bad about being of a different race, just that there are more differences than appearance alone. Lovecraft wrote a poem about how the gods created something between man and beast called a "nigger" while Burroughs was writing a book about how all the various races of Barsoom (Mars) came to live in harmony under the benevolent rule of John Carter, Tars Tarkas, et al. And yes I know that A Princess of Mars only ended in an alliance between some Green Martians and some Red Martians (specifically, Tharks and Helium), but the two immediate sequels have him conquer the Therns, First Born and Okar (with the help of members of all three species, such as Xodar and Talu) |
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Post by Duck14 on Aug 2, 2017 7:58:40 GMT -4
I haven't read it, but shouldn't we assess that sort of poem in the context of its time?
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Post by Bannanachair on Aug 2, 2017 9:53:35 GMT -4
I haven't read it, but shouldn't we assess that sort of poem in the context of its time? It was extremely racist even for it's time. Read it, it is disgustingly racist. |
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Post by Death on Aug 2, 2017 14:13:24 GMT -4
I haven't read it, but shouldn't we assess that sort of poem in the context of its time? It was extremely racist even for it's time. Read it, it is disgustingly racist. Yes it is, it very much is. But still, it's a product of it's time- he has been dead for nearly eighty years at this point. Like, racism was still so rampant at this time that John Steinback's 'Of Mice and Men' was considered controversial because it portrayed an African American character in a positive light. It got banned from many libraries and book stores for this fact. You have to consider the fact that a lot of these famous writers were assholes through and through- but it doesn't make their writings any less good. |
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Post by Bannanachair on Aug 3, 2017 4:54:54 GMT -4
It was extremely racist even for it's time. Read it, it is disgustingly racist. Yes it is, it very much is. But still, it's a product of it's time- he has been dead for nearly eighty years at this point. Like, racism was still so rampant at this time that John Steinback's 'Of Mice and Men' was considered controversial because it portrayed an African American character in a positive light. It got banned from many libraries and book stores for this fact. You have to consider the fact that a lot of these famous writers were assholes through and through- but it doesn't make their writings any less good. There's a difference between not wanting black people portrayed positively and arguing that they are inherently viceful animals bearing only a resemblance to humans. If someone were to say to a banker "Your interest rates are so bad they're almost Jewish" I'd certainly be offended, but a passing remark like that is significantly better than, say, the holocaust. You can be racist without being H.P. Lovecraft levels of racist, basically. |
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Post by Death on Aug 3, 2017 7:32:01 GMT -4
Yes it is, it very much is. But still, it's a product of it's time- he has been dead for nearly eighty years at this point. Like, racism was still so rampant at this time that John Steinback's 'Of Mice and Men' was considered controversial because it portrayed an African American character in a positive light. It got banned from many libraries and book stores for this fact. You have to consider the fact that a lot of these famous writers were assholes through and through- but it doesn't make their writings any less good. There's a difference between not wanting black people portrayed positively and arguing that they are inherently viceful animals bearing only a resemblance to humans. If someone were to say to a banker "Your interest rates are so bad they're almost Jewish" I'd certainly be offended, but a passing remark like that is significantly better than, say, the holocaust. You can be racist without being H.P. Lovecraft levels of racist, basically. Tim this is a debate which is essentially pointless because it's not going to change the fact Lovecraft was a racist prick. It's like, everyone who has read his work KNOWS he's a racist asshole, it's not exactly uncommon knowledge. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 11:51:33 GMT -4
Yes it is, it very much is. But still, it's a product of it's time- he has been dead for nearly eighty years at this point. Like, racism was still so rampant at this time that John Steinback's 'Of Mice and Men' was considered controversial because it portrayed an African American character in a positive light. It got banned from many libraries and book stores for this fact. You have to consider the fact that a lot of these famous writers were assholes through and through- but it doesn't make their writings any less good. There's a difference between not wanting black people portrayed positively and arguing that they are inherently viceful animals bearing only a resemblance to humans. If someone were to say to a banker "Your interest rates are so bad they're almost Jewish" I'd certainly be offended, but a passing remark like that is significantly better than, say, the holocaust. You can be racist without being H.P. Lovecraft levels of racist, basically. You don't seem to understand what tails is getting at, Timothy. Lovecraft came from a different time, when blacks were actively considered to be lesser human beings. Lovecraft was just a normal dude who could make some cool stories. His knowledge and outlook was a product of the time, and of the society around him. By today's standards, sure, Lovecraft is an asshole, but everyone was an asshole 80 years ago by today's standards. And anyway, why the fuck does it matter that some long dead asshole wasn't a fan of the negros? What is the point of criticizing a decades old poem that nobody really gives a shit about? You're nothing more than a dog, angrily barking at a grave. |
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Post by Bannanachair on Aug 3, 2017 19:33:02 GMT -4
There's a difference between not wanting black people portrayed positively and arguing that they are inherently viceful animals bearing only a resemblance to humans. If someone were to say to a banker "Your interest rates are so bad they're almost Jewish" I'd certainly be offended, but a passing remark like that is significantly better than, say, the holocaust. You can be racist without being H.P. Lovecraft levels of racist, basically. You don't seem to understand what tails is getting at, Timothy. Lovecraft came from a different time, when blacks were actively considered to be lesser human beings. Lovecraft was just a normal dude who could make some cool stories. His knowledge and outlook was a product of the time, and of the society around him. By today's standards, sure, Lovecraft is an asshole, but everyone was an asshole 80 years ago by today's standards. And anyway, why the fuck does it matter that some long dead asshole wasn't a fan of the negros? What is the point of criticizing a decades old poem that nobody really gives a shit about? You're nothing more than a dog, angrily barking at a grave. That's the thing that I'm arguing against. I'm arguing that he wasn't a product of his time but was, in fact, more racist than his contemporaries. |
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